# \[GSoC 2025\] Ada's participation?
**URL:** https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470
**Category:** Events
**Tags:** spark
**Created:** [November 13, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470 "2024-11-13T21:03:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Irvise](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Irvise)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/1 "2024-11-13T21:03:18Z")
Dear Ada community,
as I have already announced [in previous posts](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/urgent-participation-in-google-summer-of-code-2024/644), the Ada community could participate in the [Google Summer of Code](https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/), aka GSoC. I think this could be a wonderful opportunity to grow the open ecosystem of Ada and make it better. Plus, someone would be getting paid for that, which I [and other people](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/funding-sources/1285) find it to be quite important.
The reason I am announcing the possibility to participate in the 2025 edition is because in the last couple of years, while some people showed interest in helping out, it was too late when discussions started… So, I am opening this point soonish. It is not too soon considering that GSoC applications start early in the year and are only open for a few weeks for participating projects. Actually, [the GSoC 2025 timeline is already set and publisized!](https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/programs/gsoc-2025)
In order to participate we need to submit an application with projects that would be looking for students and mentors willing to help them.
If we fail to participate or if we are not accepted as a project, we can always lend a hand in third-party projects, such as [GCC](https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2023/organizations/gnu-compiler-collection-gcc), where an student and mentor could work on GNAT.
The information about the requirements and how GSoC works [can be found here](https://google.github.io/gsocguides/student/how-gsoc-works).
Some projects that could be potentially be worked on are:
- Improving GNAT support in \*BSDs. There are patches in their ports trees, but they would neet to be updated, upstreamed and tested. This could be done within GCC.
- Improving the [WASM runtime](https://github.com/godunko/adawebpack/) for Ada.
- Improving SPARK contracts in the GNAT library. This could be done within GCC.
- Improving Alire.
- Adding support for RTOSs, such as the soon to be released [Zephyr RTOS](https://www.zephyrproject.org/), which is growing very rapidly and we are missing out!
- Maybe improving [RTEMS](https://www.rtems.org/) Ada support?
- Adding `parallel` to GNAT. This could be done within GCC.
- Maybe working on improving [GHDL](https://github.com/ghdl/ghdl), a VHDL compiler written in Ada.
- Improving [GNAT-LLVM](https://github.com/AdaCore/gnat-llvm/) by updating it to newer LLVM versions, maybe fixing things that are yet not supported (?)
- Etc.
I would also like to remind people here that one does no longer need to be a student in order to participate as a working participant! Young people here or people that would like to get more into programming (or come back) are also quite sought after!
I am pinging @sttaft @DirkCraeynest @Fabien.C @simonjwright @dmitry-kazakov and @OneWingedShark in case any of you are interested in participating as mentors or finding other people that may be interested in being one themselves.
Lets see if this is the year we can actually get something done for GSoC! 😃
Best regards and happy hacking,
Fer
---
### Author:  [@sttaft](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/sttaft)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/2 "2024-11-14T01:37:44Z")
I would be happy to mentor anyone interested in implementing some of the Ada 2022 features that have not yet made it into GNAT. Parallel blocks and loops, and the procedural iterator come to mind. These are all really just syntactic sugar on top of some runtime that has already been built – no new code generation required.
---
### Author:  [@Irvise](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Irvise)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/3 "2024-11-14T20:44:20Z")
That is great to hear. Both of your proposals could be done within the GCC GSoC in case we do not get accepted. I need to read how to make a formal proposal for a GSoC project. Stay tuned.
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### Author:  [@OneWingedShark](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/OneWingedShark)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/4 "2024-11-14T23:14:11Z")
I can do mentoring.
I notice there’s a _LOT_ of GCC-projects on your list; why is this?
Another thing, a lot of these options are improving on the tooling.
So, secondarily, should we perhaps add to the list something like BATTS? (A bootstrap compiler using Truffle/Graal — because one of the persistent complaints against GNAT is the bootstrapping is painful.)
> [@Irvise](#):
>
> I need to read how to make a formal proposal for a GSoC project.
Hm.
What is the scope of something like this? And, if we’re going with maximizing improving the Ada ecosystem, would it be profitable to have a “_project of projects_”, where the subprojects themselves are useful in themselves?
If so, perhaps such a project would be a combined Ada+VHDL+PL/SQL IDE, as [described here](https://downloads.regulations.gov/ONCD-2023-0002-0041/attachment_1.pdf) — the whole thing could be done in such a was as to produce immediate benefit for every subproject. (e.g. if a Graph-DB is implemented, then packaging the graph-algorithms [and structures] as libraries; or presenting out a common & proved unification-engine which could be used in SPARK and in the PL/SQL engine, etc.)
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### Author:  [@Lucretia](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Lucretia)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2024, 11:42pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/5 "2024-11-14T23:42:59Z")
> [@Irvise](#):
>
> - Maybe working on improving [GHDL](https://github.com/ghdl/ghdl), a VHDL compiler written in Ada.
In what ways?
> [@Irvise](#):
>
> - Improving [GNAT-LLVM](https://github.com/AdaCore/gnat-llvm/) by updating it to newer LLVM versions, maybe fixing things that are yet not supported (?)
One thing that could be added is an easy way to use a different llvm repo for custom targets which have not been added into mainline and specifying what target to build.
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### Author:  [@JeremyGrosser](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/JeremyGrosser)
#### Post date: [November 14, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/6 "2024-11-14T23:47:43Z")
I’d love to see a gnat\_llvm toolchain in Alire. We’d need automated, reproducible build scripts similar to GNAT-FSF-builds.
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### Author:  [@Irvise](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Irvise)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/7 "2024-11-16T14:14:25Z")
> [@OneWingedShark](#):
>
> I notice there’s a _LOT_ of GCC-projects on your list; why is this?
Good question. I think I should have given a bit more context as to why 🙂
From my point of view, I wanted to focus on “low level” Ada tooling and major improvements. I did not want to mention specific projects from individuals so as to not give preference to someone while detracting from anybody else.
> [@OneWingedShark](#):
>
> So, secondarily, should we perhaps add to the list something like BATTS? (A bootstrap compiler using Truffle/Graal — because one of the persistent complaints against GNAT is the bootstrapping is painful.)
From what I know, the projects that can be presented to GSoC have to have a clear goal and be realistic within the time and resources provided. So one cannot say “work on BATTS”. What specific idea or improvement would you like to see done in BATTS? 🙂
Also, keep in mind that the goal is to spread and improve Ada. It would be best to have people writing in Ada. I am saying this as from what I have seen BATTS is written in Java 🙂
> [@OneWingedShark](#):
>
> What is the scope of something like this? And, if we’re going with maximizing improving the Ada ecosystem, would it be profitable to have a “_project of projects_”, where the subprojects themselves are useful in themselves?
Afaik, for GSoC one can only propose “simple” tasks within the chosen organisation and projects. Ideally, they should go towards already existing and important projects within the community/language/ecosystem.
> [@OneWingedShark](#):
>
> If so, perhaps such a project would be a combined Ada+VHDL+PL/SQL IDE, as [described here](https://downloads.regulations.gov/ONCD-2023-0002-0041/attachment_1.pdf) —
While this sounds great, I think greenfield projects are not allowed in GSoC… And again, the scope needs to be quite limited. Generally “students” are paid for 2-3 months of work.
> [@Lucretia](#):
>
> In what ways?
That is somewhat my covert question… Would someone have an idea or need to improve something there? 🙂 I was more or less asking for concrete ideas by giving some examples 🙂
> [@JeremyGrosser](#):
>
> I’d love to see a gnat\_llvm toolchain in Alire. We’d need automated, reproducible build scripts similar to GNAT-FSF-builds.
Yes! Me too! That way we could get WASM and all other LLVM targets within Alire!
Though I do not know if packaging “projects” would be approved by GSoC… Maybe improving the packageability of GNAT-LLVM and then having a subtask of adding it to Alire?
Thank you all for your feedback and ideas!
---
### Author:  [@OneWingedShark](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/OneWingedShark)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/8 "2024-11-16T18:41:10Z")
> [@Irvise](#):
>
> I am saying this as from what I have seen BATTS is written in Java 🙂
It is (Truffle/GrallVM, specifically), for the reason that it is intended to be a bootstrap.
Byron is the Ada-in-Ada compiler project.
> [@Irvise](#):
>
> GSoC have to have a clear goal and be realistic within the time and resources provided.
This is quite sensible: you can’t evaluate progress-on/achievement-of a goal if there’s no goal.
> [@Irvise](#):
>
> Ideally, they should go towards already existing and important projects within the community/language/ecosystem.
Right: and that’s where taking a step back and evaluating things on the meta-level for where we get “_the most bang for your buck_” comes in… and much of _that_ evaluation is predicated on what values you’re targetting.
> [@Irvise](#):
>
> > [@OneWingedShark](#):
> >
> > If so, perhaps such a project would be a combined Ada+VHDL+PL/SQL IDE, as [described here](https://downloads.regulations.gov/ONCD-2023-0002-0041/attachment_1.pdf) —
>
> While this sounds great, I think greenfield projects are not allowed in GSoC… And again, the scope needs to be quite limited. Generally “students” are paid for 2-3 months of work.
Hm, honestly, I think the biggest “bang-for-buck” here would be production of a SPARK-proved [unification](https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2018/unification/)-engine with intent to interface/implement the (1) a SMT, w/ [SMT-LIB](https://smt-lib.org/language.shtml) interface, (2) a SPARK theorem-prover, (3) a database engine. (Also interesting are [SAT](https://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hoos/SATLIB/) and automatic theorem-proving, ala [TPTP](https://www.tptp.org/). / Also interesting: [this paper](https://arxiv.org/pdf/2110.14053v2) uses graph neural nets to aid SAT solving.)
That, however, might be considered a greenfield project, as no such project actually exists currently — therefore, perhaps taking a step back and working the data-storage side of that and working on [Mneson](https://github.com/marius-linguist/Mneson) such that:
1. Refactor to not be `generic` at the top-level,
**Note:** This sets up the ability to SPARK-prove the implementation, as currently a big SPARK weakness is it does not operate on `generic` constructs directly.
2. [Possible] refactor not to use Charles containers [AI-302], but `Ada.Containers`,
(Actually setting up for future development: allowing the `Ada.Containers` objects to interface implementation/be-backed-by the database.)
3. Update codebase to use SPARK,
4. Better unit-tests.
(This should be a trivial/forgone-conclusion after being SPARK-proved, but gives a second “check your work” checklist.)
Future development could be the implementation of: (1) data-structure/-container “views”, (2) relational- and object-DB “views” (Mneson is a graph-DB), and (3) the unification-/solver-/DB-engine.
**TL;DR —** A opensource, 100% native Ada database, with SPARK-proving sounds like an excellent investment.
---
### Author:  [@DrPi](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/DrPi)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2024, 9:45am UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/9 "2024-11-17T09:45:11Z")
> [@Irvise](#):
>
> > [@Lucretia](#):
> >
> > In what ways?
>
> That is somewhat my covert question… Would someone have an idea or need to improve something there? 🙂 I was more or less asking for concrete ideas by giving some examples 🙂
Easy answer : Convince the project leaders not to switch to Rust. They already started the switch because “nobody nows Ada so nobody contributes to the project”.
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### Author:  [@DrPi](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/DrPi)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2024, 10:42am UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/10 "2024-11-17T10:42:58Z")
There are discutions about it (in 2022) that can be found in the Matrix GHDL room [here](https://matrix.to/#/!cQMcukGWLuHpoliaTF:gitter.im/$z-iKWpVLmCAqkKljEvWY-m7x_weAuD2V5wSrX4Lqfjw?via=gitter.im&via=matrix.org&via=xiretza.xyz) (June, 10 2022 at 0:44).
---
### Author:  [@Irvise](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Irvise)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/11 "2024-11-18T20:59:01Z")
> [@OneWingedShark](#):
>
> This is quite sensible: you can’t evaluate progress-on/achievement-of a goal if there’s no goal.
The management people like using the acronym S.M.A.R.T 🙂
> [@OneWingedShark](#):
>
> Right: and that’s where taking a step back and evaluating things on the meta-level for where we get “_the most bang for your buck_” comes in… and much of _that_ evaluation is predicated on what values you’re targetting.
Exactly. I do not want to be the one saying “lets do this or that!” I am in no position to do so… I threw some ideas that I think are valued by most of the community or that would benefit the community the most. But all ideas are welcomed and I want them to be heard 🙂
> [@OneWingedShark](#):
>
> Hm, honestly, I think the biggest “bang-for-buck” here would be production of a SPARK-proved [unification](https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2018/unification/)-engine with intent to interface/implement the (1) a SMT, w/ [SMT-LIB](https://smt-lib.org/language.shtml) interface, (2) a SPARK theorem-prover, (3) a database engine. (Also interesting are [SAT](https://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hoos/SATLIB/) and automatic theorem-proving, ala [TPTP](https://www.tptp.org/). / Also interesting: [this paper](https://arxiv.org/pdf/2110.14053v2) uses graph neural nets to aid SAT solving.)
AFAIK, SPARK already uses the Why3 lingua-franca/framework. Though your proposal would be more wide-encompasing 🙂
> [@OneWingedShark](#):
>
> That, however, might be considered a greenfield project, as no such project actually exists currently — therefore, perhaps taking a step back and working the data-storage side of that and working on [Mneson](https://github.com/marius-linguist/Mneson) such that:
>
> 1. Refactor to not be `generic` at the top-level,
> 2._Note:_\* This sets up the ability to SPARK-prove the implementation, as currently a big SPARK weakness is it does not operate on `generic` constructs directly.
> 2. [Possible] refactor not to use Charles containers [AI-302], but `Ada.Containers`,
> (Actually setting up for future development: allowing the `Ada.Containers` objects to interface implementation/be-backed-by the database.)
> 3. Update codebase to use SPARK,
> 4. Better unit-tests.
> (This should be a trivial/forgone-conclusion after being SPARK-proved, but gives a second “check your work” checklist.)
>
> Future development could be the implementation of: (1) data-structure/-container “views”, (2) relational- and object-DB “views” (Mneson is a graph-DB), and (3) the unification-/solver-/DB-engine.
>
> **TL;DR —** A opensource, 100% native Ada database, with SPARK-proving sounds like an excellent investment.
I like the idea! I will write it down 🙂
> [@DrPi](#):
>
> Easy answer : Convince the project leaders not to switch to Rust. They already started the switch because “nobody nows Ada so nobody contributes to the project”.
I would say that marketing and a lower barrier of entry should be top priority for that goal ^^ I am trying to do my part 🙂
---
### Author:  [@mosteo](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/mosteo)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2024, 9:05am UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/12 "2024-11-21T09:05:30Z")
I can mentor anything related to Alire. In fact, I intended to come up with suitable tasks for GsoC, but maybe the community can identify some sticking points worth prioritizing.
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### Author:  [@Irvise](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Irvise)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/13 "2024-11-21T21:41:35Z")
Thanks everybody for your commitment!
I still have not had much time to read about GSoC. I am a bit overloaded with a few other things, so it will take me a while to summarize my findings here…
Talk to you all soon,
Fer
---
### Author:  [@Irvise](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Irvise)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/14 "2025-01-12T16:40:51Z")
Very quick update. I have not looked at this a single bit (holidays and FOSDEM are taking all of my time). I hope to have some time in the following weeks, but that is when the next GSoC should open…
Just in case and to speed things up. @sttaft, @DirkCraeynest if we were to make an application to GSoC, would we do it from Ada-Lang or should we do it fro the AUS or Ada-Europe? I know the Fortran people made it from their association, but I do not know how that works nor if I could do it, as I am not in any way affiliated with this website (not an owner nor heavy contributor).
Also, Google has another interesting yearly event… Google Season of Docs, just letting you know [Google Season of Docs | Google for Developers](https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs)
All the best,
Fer
---
### Author:  [@DirkCraeynest](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/DirkCraeynest)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/15 "2025-01-12T16:45:44Z")
Not sure what it means to “make an application from Ada-Lang or from [… an organization …]”. As the main (only?) discussion on this happened here in the Ada-Lang forum, I would be tempted to suggest “to make an application from Ada-Lang”.
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### Author:  [@pyj](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/pyj)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/16 "2025-01-12T20:18:08Z")
> [@Irvise](#):
>
> from Ada-Lang
Ada-Lang isn’t an actual organization, it’s just a “Github organization.”
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### Author:  [@Irvise](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Irvise)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2025, 9:17pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/17 "2025-01-12T21:17:35Z")
AFAIK, Fortran-Lang was also a Github org and a bunch of people together, so something like Ada-Lang 🙂 So it may just work
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### Author:  [@mosteo](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/mosteo)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2025, 11:46am UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/18 "2025-01-15T11:46:56Z")
I just saw the new timeline is up: [Cronograma do Google Summer of Code 2025 | Google for Developers](https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline)
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### Author:  [@Irvise](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Irvise)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2025, 7:50pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/19 "2025-02-03T19:50:14Z")
Quick update,
I got today back to Madrid from FOSDEM. I am quite tired but very happy with the outcome of FOSDEM! I met the head of the GSoC programme. She is a lovely lady and she encouraged me to submit but make it right. She was also happy to know that if we missed the deadline or if we could not get approved, that there could still be the possibility to takepart within other projects (GCC).
I do not have much time and the deadline is the 11th… Lets see was WE can do 😉
Best regards,
Fer
---
### Author:  [@Irvise](https://forum.ada-lang.io/u/Irvise)
#### Post date: [February 7, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://forum.ada-lang.io/t/gsoc-2025-adas-participation/1470/20 "2025-02-07T16:26:08Z")
Another quick update. I have been reading the documentation on how to submit a project and how to be a mentor. It is quite a bit of documentation… Deadline is this Monday (actually Tuesday, but lets say it is Monday).
I do not know if I will have time to carry it out. Nonetheless, as I said, we may get some work done within other groups (such as GCC!).
Best regards,
Fer
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